HI EVERYONE
Here are some "conversations" we had with one of the participants in the e-bible study. Thought you might be interested. We love hearing from all of you.
QUESTIONS
January 17th: I've run across this before, but the story of Er and Onan makes my ... eyebrows raise a bit. Paraprashing: Er was wicked so God put him to death. Then Onan didn't want to give Er's wife offspring in lieu of Er. God saw Onan as wicked and put him to death as well.
Without more details from our (ignorant human) perspective, death seems a pretty harsh punishment, especially for Onan. Don't you think?
These passages always seemed odd to me. What are we supposed to gather from these?
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE- It is a broad and much detailed answer - bottom line - Yes it does seem pretty harsh. Both deaths are the result of disobedience of what God commanded. Even for us now, the result of our sin is death - but Jesus...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jesus' genealogy is to be traced from Jesus to Judah through Tamar. God does accomplish His purposes, one way or another. Since the sons refused to do as God instructed, God completed the genealogy line from Judah through Tamar the hard way. The two sons could have done it God's way, the easy way. God gave them the harsh punishment because it was a severe crime against God. While we may not understand all of God's plan, we must remember that we do not have the mind of God. We just have to trust in Him and know that because of Jesus we do not have to worry about that kind of punishment.
Here are some "conversations" we had with one of the participants in the e-bible study. Thought you might be interested. We love hearing from all of you.
QUESTIONS
January 17th: I've run across this before, but the story of Er and Onan makes my ... eyebrows raise a bit. Paraprashing: Er was wicked so God put him to death. Then Onan didn't want to give Er's wife offspring in lieu of Er. God saw Onan as wicked and put him to death as well.
Without more details from our (ignorant human) perspective, death seems a pretty harsh punishment, especially for Onan. Don't you think?
These passages always seemed odd to me. What are we supposed to gather from these?
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE- It is a broad and much detailed answer - bottom line - Yes it does seem pretty harsh. Both deaths are the result of disobedience of what God commanded. Even for us now, the result of our sin is death - but Jesus...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jesus' genealogy is to be traced from Jesus to Judah through Tamar. God does accomplish His purposes, one way or another. Since the sons refused to do as God instructed, God completed the genealogy line from Judah through Tamar the hard way. The two sons could have done it God's way, the easy way. God gave them the harsh punishment because it was a severe crime against God. While we may not understand all of God's plan, we must remember that we do not have the mind of God. We just have to trust in Him and know that because of Jesus we do not have to worry about that kind of punishment.
I don't think I asked this one very well. I understand everything you replied here, but doesn't really answer the question I "should" have asked. 1) "Er was wicked in God's eyes. So He had him put to death." Wicked? What had he done that was so bad that he deserved death? Details. Details. 2) What was so wrong with what Onan did? Which of 10 Commandments did he break here? (Tongue in cheek since I know we haven't gotten to the 10 Commandments, yet.) Again, what Law/rule did Onan break here to deserve death? The writer's (of the Bible) could certainly have mentioned these details. Us humans are linear. It hard to understand how we get to C without knowing what A and B are. I assume that there some "unmentioned" rules or Laws that we're dealing with here. Yes?
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE-These are great questions, wish we had all the answers. 1)The Bible doesn't tell us what Er's sin was. All it says is that Er was wicked in God's eyes. The Hebrew word for wicked means "morally evil". So, obviously we don't have all the details here and probably never will have. We don't think it was just one sin that Er committed that caused God to slay him. Rather, it was his morally corrupt character, along with his actions. 2) Apparently there was an unwritten law concerning such matters. God conveyed to them differences between right and wrong in some way. Just as Cain knew it was wrong to kill his brother Abel. And both Cain and Abel knew to bring sacrifices and offerings to the Lord. How God chose to convey this to them we don't really know. Onan's duty was the law, according to God. Culturally and socially, it was the right thing to do as far as the widow was concerned. Tamar had no one to take care of her, especially important as she aged. Sons took care of their mothers. Without a son or husband, Tamar was in danger of being destitute in her old age. It could be that Onan didn't want his offspring to be considered as his brother's. Maybe there was a bit of pride and jealousy surfacing here. Onan would have to give up part of his inheritance if he shared it with his elder brother's son. So, yes there are some "unmentioned" rules and laws. It's very difficult to get to C without knowing A and B - just think what's going to happen before we get to Z! That's why we're reading the entire Bible.
January 22nd:
Exodus 3: 1-6 ...There "the angel of the Lord" appeared to him in flames of fire...
I don't follow the reference here. I always thought it was God speaking directly to Moses. What is "the angel of the Lord"?
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE-Oh, so glad you asked about this one! The angel of the Lord is the Son of God. Remember, God the Son was with God in the very beginning (or really before what we consider the beginning). See John 1.There are many other details, such as Hagar's response to the angel of the Lord. She said he was the "God who sees me". So even she identified the angel as God (the Son). There will be lots of other references as we continue reading the Old Testament. Stay tuned!
Ah! Excellent. I figured it had to be something like that.
Exodus 4:24-26 ...the Lord met Moses (his son that is) and was about to kill him. But Zippy(sp) circumcised him. So, the Lord let him alone.
Again, it seems like there are some details left out here. How did the Lord "meet him"? How do we know what God was thinking? Why the harsh punishment for not being circumcised? Shouldn't someone have let Moses' son know about the "requirements" before going on the trip?
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE-Really love the nickname Zippy. It sounds so appropriate to what she did. If we read carefully verses 24-26 it reads that God was about to kill Moses, not his son. Again, it seems pretty harsh punishment for what we would consider a minor crime. However, circumcision was man's part of the covenant with God. There are probably many details left out. It makes us have to dig a little deeper. As a matter of fact, there are other writings that are not in the Bible that give some more of the details. The Book of Jasher says that the reason Moses didn't circumcise his son is at the command of his father-in-law, defying God's command to do so. As far as the Lord meeting him - it is the Son of God who met Moses and that's how we know what God was thinking.
Again, nice details to know. It was hard for me to understand how "We're" enlisting Moses' help, and then all of a sudden We want him dead. I was getting worried that God was manic-depressive or something. Just didn't make sense. Thanks for the insight!! Sorry for the Zippy thing... I just couldn't resist.
Between Creation and Moses, it seemed we were in the soap opera portion of the Bible. Lot of relationships between people of questionable character. Now it seems we're starting to get into some of the meat, so to speak.
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE-It gets better and then worse, then better and then worse, then better and then worse, etc....!
Exodus 4:24-26 ...the Lord met Moses (his son that is) and was about to kill him. But Zippy(sp) circumcised him. So, the Lord let him alone.
Again, it seems like there are some details left out here. How did the Lord "meet him"? How do we know what God was thinking? Why the harsh punishment for not being circumcised? Shouldn't someone have let Moses' son know about the "requirements" before going on the trip?
PHIL AND PATTI RESPONSE-Really love the nickname Zippy. It sounds so appropriate to what she did. If we read carefully verses 24-26 it reads that God was about to kill Moses, not his son. Again, it seems pretty harsh punishment for what we would consider a minor crime. However, circumcision was man's part of the covenant with God. There are probably many details left out. It makes us have to dig a little deeper. As a matter of fact, there are other writings that are not in the Bible that give some more of the details. The Book of Jasher says that the reason Moses didn't circumcise his son is at the command of his father-in-law, defying God's command to do so. As far as the Lord meeting him - it is the Son of God who met Moses and that's how we know what God was thinking.
Between Creation and Moses, it seemed we were in the soap opera portion of the Bible. Lot of relationships between people of questionable character. Now it seems we're starting to get into some of the meat, so to speak.
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